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somewhere in the skies is brought to you

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hey guys Ryan Sprague here it is that

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time of the season again

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peppermint lattes cozy sweaters fat man

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coming down your chimney

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whatever it is I'm wishing you a very

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happy holiday season so for any of you

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saucer heads out there I just wanted to

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let you know we have got a ton of new

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designs over at the somewhere in the sky

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store with many more to come so why not

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get that special ufologist

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or enthusiast in your life something

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truly unique this holiday season visit T

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public comm and search for someone in

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the skies that's t ee public comm also

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if you're in the holiday giving spirit

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the patreon campaign is up and running

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better equipment and even be able to go

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exclusive content

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to become a patron today

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that's patreon.com slash summer skies

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and most importantly for anyone who

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purchases my book somewhere in the skies

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from now until January 1st 25% of the

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proceeds will be donated to the women's

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refugee commission there are currently

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over 60 million refugees and internally

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displaced persons worldwide

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who have been displaced by conflict the

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women's refugee Commission improves the

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lives and protects the rights of women

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children and youth displaced by conflict

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in crisis the commission are leading

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experts on the needs of refugee women

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and children and the politics that can

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protect and empower them to support my

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work and to help an extraordinary cause

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this season head on over to amazon.com

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and search for summer in the skies

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available both in paperback and

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to learn more about this amazing

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organization visit women's refugee

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commission org

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thank you for all that you do for the

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show and beyond let's make this holiday

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season one we won't soon forget

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and with that let's also get to this

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this is somewhere in the skies inspired

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welcome to somewhere in the skies I'm

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your host Ryan Sprague every now and

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again you come across something that

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feels like it was made specifically for

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you

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whether it's a song a piece of clothing

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a craft beer or even a car it speaks

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volumes to you that nothing else can and

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it stays with you about two months ago a

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few listeners brought to my attention a

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comic book series that I'd never heard

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of before I was hesitant knowing full

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well that comics can often be very hit

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or miss but I gave it a try and by the

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first page I was absolutely hooked

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Arcadia Alvarado the leading Democratic

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candidate for president of the United

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States says she was abducted by aliens

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as the mexican-american governor of New

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Mexico she's dealing with immigration

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budget cuts and an alcoholic ex she's

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about to toss her hat into the ring as a

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candidate for president in the most

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volatile political climate ever but then

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a lonely road and a nightmarish

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encounter have left her with terrible

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hath glimpsed memories and now she has

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to become president to expose the truth

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and maybe to save the world

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Arcadia's quest is at the heart of this

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series written by Paul Cornell and

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stunningly drawn to life by artist Ryan

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Kelly with the help of her quirky staff

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Arcadia will pursue the truth of her

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abduction into danger mystery and awe

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saucer country is a dark thriller that

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blends UFO lore and alien abduction with

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political intrigue all set in the

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hauntingly beautiful southwest today I

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am speaking with the creator and writer

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of saucer country Paul Cornell Paul is a

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writer of science fiction and fantasy

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comics and TV and one of the only two

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people to be Hugo Award nominated for

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all three media he's written Doctor Who

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for the BBC action comics for DC and

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Wolverine for

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Marvell he's won the BSF a award for his

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short fiction an eagle Award for his

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comics and shares in a Writers Guild

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Award for television

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his latest urban fantasy novel who

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killed Sherlock Holmes is now available

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with saucer country having rapped in

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early 2013 Cornell and his entire

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creative team recently revived the

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series with IDW comics with a new title

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saucer state which chronicles Arcadia

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Alvarado's journey as president of the

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United States and her continued search

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for answers to what happened to her

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somewhere in the skies whether she likes

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it or not so without further ado let's

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dig deep into flying saucers abductions

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men in black and the rich mythology of

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UFOs with Paul Cornell so I came across

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your work a few months ago by several

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suggestions from listeners of the

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podcast and I am so happy I did I bought

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both volumes of saucer country and I

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couldn't put it down Paul so today of

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course man it was refreshing it was

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something that I'm so happy I came

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across so today we're gonna talk all

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about it

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saucer country and also your recently

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released follow-up saucer state so with

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me today is Paul Cornell Paul thank you

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so much for joining me on somewhere in

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this guy's thank you very much for

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having me so I mean like any good comic

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book Paul I'm sure you're well aware of

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this I want to start with your origin

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story how how did your interest in the

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UFO phenomenon first begin before we

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even get to saucer country when I was a

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child actually I mean I grew up being

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obsessed with spaceflight and in the mid

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seventies the whole spaceflight thing

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kind of docked completely with UFO

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mythology you know if you're a kid who

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was interested in Apollo you were also

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interested in Close Encounters when it

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came along and I would find in the

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library weird UFO books um I realized

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the other day that George Adamski is

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flying saucers have landed in a hardback

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edition was in my school

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library but I grew up and my school

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library was it was kind of this decaying

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country house and I think our library

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was basically the collection of whoever

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had owned the house before the school

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came back so I got exposed to some

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extraordinary things as a child so I

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would be reading these very scary UFO

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books under the blood under the blankets

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and scaring myself silly yeah I've been

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a nude in this stuff from a very very

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young age I I can mirror that quite

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closely my friend I'd be there are times

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where I remember sneaking these books

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you know not you know getting up from my

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public library bringing them home

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digesting them one by one bringing them

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back getting another one where you

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become the UFO person at your local

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library

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it's quite a label to have for sure well

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that's really cool so I guess without

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giving away too much could you maybe

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give us the what we call in this

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screenwriting world which again you're

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quite familiar with the elevator pitch

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for saucer country well KBR Alvarado the

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Governor of New Mexico is about to

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launch presidential bid and on the eve

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of launching it she's abducted by aliens

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and we always put that in inverted

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commas because she's never sure of what

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exactly that was or what it meant and

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she runs for president in saucer state

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the current volume that the sequel she

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is the president and is trying to use

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the office to find out what happened

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it's a coalition between the world of

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politics and the world of UFO mythology

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I think if you come to the book

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expecting a real alien invasion then

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you're going to be disappointed we're

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talking about this is a body of

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mythology and it's very much slippery

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it's it's about different levels of

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reality I always think that the x-files

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is strangely strangely detached from UFO

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mythology you know they brought their

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own they brought their own concepts to

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it almost immediately I mean nowhere in

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UFO

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or do you find they're alien bounty

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hunters with the little weapons they

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live in today you know that's there

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that's made up of you cloth that's their

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own pathology so we are right at the

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heart of this stuff and using using all

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of the tremendous multi facets of it

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because it's an amazing mythology it's

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it's beautiful it's it's multi-layered

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and it just covers so much ground and if

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anything oddly it's under explored in

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popular culture because the greys

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basically have just taken over

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everything they're like the Beatles of

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UFO mythology you know everybody's heard

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of that but everything else is new

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become more obscure anything that is a

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really good point the rich history

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behind ufology I guess we could put it

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again in inverted quotes um that there's

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so much to it and something like the

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x-files they they were very ambiguous

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they never named names when it came to

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actual cases it was rare if that ever

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happened so yeah it is interesting and

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very refreshing to see something like

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saucer country come around that actually

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uses that rich history that uses the

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actual people that were involved in

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abduction cases or you know Project Blue

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Book things like that myself in my work

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did a tour around New Mexico when I knew

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I was going to be writing this comic and

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it was just a lot delight to go and see

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all of these sites you know like Oh

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Sirocco and poor old Roswell Wow yeah it

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really it really it really doesn't want

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to be that Thao it's managed to confide

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it to one the street and again

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mythologically Roswell is this little

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town and in real life it's a huge

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industrial heartland you know it's the

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biggest biggest time for a hundred miles

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you know all of those beautiful places

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with resident names where you know one

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found their romance back in those days

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and New Mexico is replete with it as

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well as being replete with genuine you

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know space history as well exactly yes a

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rich deep history especially for our

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military

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you know that's something that your your

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story covers as well and we'll

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definitely get to that well I guess but

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what what was the impetus for Saucer

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country how did the idea really come

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about and how did you get connected with

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Ryan Kelly on this I'm interested in the

274
00:12:28,290 --> 00:12:24,520
process of that well Burt ago I pitched

275
00:12:30,330 --> 00:12:28,300
the idea to vertigo and they offered me

276
00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:30,340
a range of artists and I was already

277
00:12:37,500 --> 00:12:32,880
familiar with Ryan's work from the

278
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:37,510
short-lived DC Comics for girls lying

279
00:12:44,190 --> 00:12:41,530
I called minx and he did a beautiful

280
00:12:46,350 --> 00:12:44,200
book for them and I just thought there

281
00:12:48,090 --> 00:12:46,360
is somebody who can do the real life

282
00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:48,100
stuff I need to do really really well

283
00:12:53,730 --> 00:12:50,320
but we call it acting he does good

284
00:12:56,700 --> 00:12:53,740
acting his characters you couldn't see

285
00:12:58,920 --> 00:12:56,710
what their what they removed and also

286
00:13:02,040 --> 00:12:58,930
we've discovered that he's just

287
00:13:04,740 --> 00:13:02,050
amazingly good at the numinous that the

288
00:13:07,170 --> 00:13:04,750
intrusion of the unbelievable into these

289
00:13:08,730 --> 00:13:07,180
realistic worlds as well and that's what

290
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:08,740
you really need for this title somebody

291
00:13:13,470 --> 00:13:11,290
who can do both and honestly I can't

292
00:13:16,110 --> 00:13:13,480
imagine doing it without him he's so

293
00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:16,120
vital to this book I would have to agree

294
00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:18,310
I feel like it is a match made in heaven

295
00:13:22,290 --> 00:13:20,050
there's so many comics out there that

296
00:13:24,270 --> 00:13:22,300
feel detached when it comes to the

297
00:13:26,460 --> 00:13:24,280
writer and the artist and it just

298
00:13:28,950 --> 00:13:26,470
doesn't mesh but like you said that the

299
00:13:30,450 --> 00:13:28,960
emotive nature to his art really brings

300
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:30,460
out what you're trying to say with your

301
00:13:35,310 --> 00:13:33,250
characters which easily could become

302
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:35,320
very you know forgive the pun alienated

303
00:13:39,090 --> 00:13:36,490
when you're dealing with a topic like

304
00:13:40,740 --> 00:13:39,100
this but it makes it very human and I

305
00:13:42,690 --> 00:13:40,750
think that's what really kept me going

306
00:13:46,110 --> 00:13:42,700
it wasn't even this excitement of

307
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:46,120
reading about UFO history or the UFO

308
00:13:50,820 --> 00:13:48,130
phenomenon or abduction phenomenon it

309
00:13:52,890 --> 00:13:50,830
really was this narrative and this main

310
00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:52,900
character that you've created and

311
00:13:58,080 --> 00:13:56,320
another huge aspect of saucer country I

312
00:14:01,770 --> 00:13:58,090
would say so well he keeps pulling me

313
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:01,780
into you know give more I mean Chloe

314
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:04,410
Saunders the Republican strategist

315
00:14:09,810 --> 00:14:07,330
because he draws her so well that he

316
00:14:11,730 --> 00:14:09,820
could do comedy so well I keep giving

317
00:14:15,900 --> 00:14:11,740
her more and more funny lines because I

318
00:14:17,820 --> 00:14:15,910
know that's a lovely thing where that

319
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:17,830
virtuous circle is happening you know

320
00:14:23,700 --> 00:14:20,850
absolutely yeah and every character is

321
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:23,710
definitely bring something to this

322
00:14:28,530 --> 00:14:26,320
entire story and I think that's pretty

323
00:14:31,019 --> 00:14:28,540
awesome I guess my my question in terms

324
00:14:33,210 --> 00:14:31,029
of character would be Arcadia how did

325
00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:33,220
the idea come up to have you know which

326
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:35,110
we don't see that often we see it a lot

327
00:14:40,530 --> 00:14:38,050
more nowadays a female lead character in

328
00:14:42,900 --> 00:14:40,540
your story which is very refreshing and

329
00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:42,910
long overdue how did you come up with

330
00:14:48,329 --> 00:14:46,510
Arcadia well I think I made a wrong bet

331
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:48,339
on the nature of American politics so I

332
00:14:54,230 --> 00:14:50,770
thought this is obviously going to be

333
00:14:58,980 --> 00:14:54,240
fairly soon what actually happens yeah

334
00:15:01,620 --> 00:14:58,990
yeah we did or didn't romantically but I

335
00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:01,630
knew that she had to be or Mexican

336
00:15:06,450 --> 00:15:03,510
descent because I wanted to talk about

337
00:15:09,410 --> 00:15:06,460
aliens I wanted to talk about the idea

338
00:15:12,390 --> 00:15:09,420
of you know incursions over the border

339
00:15:14,850 --> 00:15:12,400
doing that metaphor between you know

340
00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:14,860
earth and space and America and Mexico

341
00:15:20,579 --> 00:15:17,710
you know we we've we've flow with that a

342
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:20,589
lot actually we you know it's kind of

343
00:15:26,130 --> 00:15:23,890
important to her to her character but

344
00:15:29,340 --> 00:15:26,140
you know she's two generations from

345
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:29,350
having been me of illegal immigrants

346
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:32,530
that at the time the rhetoric was

347
00:15:39,060 --> 00:15:36,730
inflamed now it's extraordinary and that

348
00:15:41,579 --> 00:15:39,070
was really important that was right at

349
00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:41,589
the start that wasn't the first in the

350
00:15:46,350 --> 00:15:43,690
first page you know well in terms of

351
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:46,360
that those politics I'd love to hear a

352
00:15:51,810 --> 00:15:48,370
little bit more about what what made you

353
00:15:54,660 --> 00:15:51,820
want to Paul mix politics with the whole

354
00:15:56,730 --> 00:15:54,670
UFO question I mean we do see this run

355
00:15:59,370 --> 00:15:56,740
in tandem throughout UFO history of

356
00:16:01,920 --> 00:15:59,380
politics being involved sometimes good

357
00:16:04,530 --> 00:16:01,930
sometimes bad so what made you want to

358
00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:04,540
cover US politics over maybe another

359
00:16:10,110 --> 00:16:07,360
country or something like that well it's

360
00:16:12,329 --> 00:16:10,120
it's that's always fascinated me and one

361
00:16:14,190 --> 00:16:12,339
of the things I do quite often is take a

362
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:14,200
bunch of professionals involved in one

363
00:16:18,150 --> 00:16:16,330
field and throw them out of their depth

364
00:16:20,540 --> 00:16:18,160
into something else my shadow police

365
00:16:23,460 --> 00:16:20,550
folks are about police and magic and

366
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:23,470
there was something about you know how

367
00:16:29,270 --> 00:16:27,010
vulnerable and impotent the UFO

368
00:16:31,650 --> 00:16:29,280
phenomena makes us and I wanted to

369
00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:31,660
contrast that with the power of high

370
00:16:37,140 --> 00:16:34,510
office to see any power

371
00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:37,150
be brought to bear against the numinous

372
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:39,570
against the the extraordinary and

373
00:16:43,740 --> 00:16:41,770
because because I wanted to talk about

374
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:43,750
UFO mythology and you I wanted to talk

375
00:16:48,330 --> 00:16:46,090
about New Mexico and that led to the

376
00:16:52,020 --> 00:16:48,340
governor of New Mexico and that led to

377
00:16:53,550 --> 00:16:52,030
the presidential run and you know these

378
00:16:55,650 --> 00:16:53,560
things just seemed to fit together

379
00:16:58,860 --> 00:16:55,660
really well you know the fact that the

380
00:17:00,630 --> 00:16:58,870
previous government of New Mexico at the

381
00:17:04,530 --> 00:17:00,640
time of Roswell actually figures quite

382
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:04,540
largely into UFO mythology really helped

383
00:17:08,370 --> 00:17:06,610
yeah yeah I think I think it was a very

384
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:08,380
important part of the book and we do

385
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:11,290
hear a lot of the time that there are US

386
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:13,810
presidents who have asked this question

387
00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:16,690
like what is what is going on with area

388
00:17:22,020 --> 00:17:20,230
51 who shot JFK you know we know we know

389
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:22,030
Clinton is probably the biggest

390
00:17:34,530 --> 00:17:30,360
mentioned the possibility of disclosure

391
00:17:37,860 --> 00:17:34,540
in a positive way I thought wow we're

392
00:17:40,590 --> 00:17:37,870
really wasting bearer that we hit a

393
00:17:42,510 --> 00:17:40,600
brick wall with that I didn't think

394
00:17:46,740 --> 00:17:42,520
actually the comic politically hit a

395
00:17:49,530 --> 00:17:46,750
brick wall at all in that we did predict

396
00:17:53,010 --> 00:17:49,540
and actually have followed through on

397
00:17:55,470 --> 00:17:53,020
one huge thing which is Russian

398
00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:55,480
interference in American politics which

399
00:18:01,650 --> 00:17:57,490
we got there first with Frank late and

400
00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:01,660
I'm really pleased about that and that's

401
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:03,370
become it's become clearer and clearer

402
00:18:07,370 --> 00:18:05,290
that that's where the titles going and

403
00:18:10,860 --> 00:18:07,380
that was always part of the mix which is

404
00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:10,870
beautiful yeah it's it's always

405
00:18:17,850 --> 00:18:13,270
refreshing when some when an art form

406
00:18:22,790 --> 00:18:17,860
can protect future events for sure but

407
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:22,800
no we didn't expect Trump at all now

408
00:18:28,260 --> 00:18:25,650
incorporated him in in that we've got a

409
00:18:30,510 --> 00:18:28,270
source estate it was somebody who looked

410
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:30,520
like a prospective challenger in future

411
00:18:35,580 --> 00:18:33,370
who is very like him and brings that to

412
00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:35,590
the table and I'm a political geek and

413
00:18:39,780 --> 00:18:38,080
you know just really really interested

414
00:18:43,770 --> 00:18:39,790
and also I respect politicians

415
00:18:45,950 --> 00:18:43,780
I am I kind of wince at the general

416
00:18:48,500 --> 00:18:45,960
tendency to say they're all the same I

417
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:48,510
really like highly skilled politician

418
00:18:54,890 --> 00:18:52,170
and until this current one I would think

419
00:18:58,730 --> 00:18:54,900
that virtually every person of the

420
00:19:02,120 --> 00:18:58,740
United States has been a reasonable

421
00:19:03,730 --> 00:19:02,130
intellectual you know a somebody who

422
00:19:07,670 --> 00:19:03,740
could very definitely hold their own in

423
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:07,680
intellectual debate even the ones we

424
00:19:11,300 --> 00:19:08,970
tend to think of as stupid

425
00:19:13,730 --> 00:19:11,310
Reagan for instance much more

426
00:19:15,980 --> 00:19:13,740
intelligent than he's portrayed and the

427
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:15,990
presidents who asked about UFOs we go

428
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:19,440
into this a lot of the Quebec a couple

429
00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:21,450
of particular issues in fact we're going

430
00:19:25,970 --> 00:19:24,510
to go there again towards the end we've

431
00:19:30,830 --> 00:19:25,980
got a little another little history

432
00:19:33,410 --> 00:19:30,840
lesson before we finish but you know one

433
00:19:35,990 --> 00:19:33,420
of my favorite books on about UFOs and

434
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:36,000
possibly the the single say myst book

435
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:38,730
about UFOs is Mirage men I'm not talking

436
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:43,110
to yes absalom happen oh yes from from

437
00:19:48,110 --> 00:19:44,720
the personal account of his own

438
00:19:51,790 --> 00:19:48,120
inexplicable experience to a real look

439
00:19:55,340 --> 00:19:51,800
into how much UFO mythology benefits

440
00:19:58,460 --> 00:19:55,350
American intelligence that right back

441
00:20:00,920 --> 00:19:58,470
from the 1940s that we have Freedom of

442
00:20:03,620 --> 00:20:00,930
Information request records above us to

443
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:03,630
you know how many intelligence officers

444
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:06,690
are in the first UFO groups and there's

445
00:20:11,570 --> 00:20:08,250
loads of them and they're not there to

446
00:20:13,910 --> 00:20:11,580
debunk or to observe or to report back

447
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:13,920
they're there to encourage because it's

448
00:20:18,590 --> 00:20:15,930
much better for them if when people look

449
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:18,600
up they don't see a u2 but a disc and I

450
00:20:24,110 --> 00:20:22,260
think personally you know spoilers but

451
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:24,120
it's out the hits out there is a a

452
00:20:28,910 --> 00:20:26,970
factual book anyway III think personally

453
00:20:32,540 --> 00:20:28,920
and this doesn't really spoil our future

454
00:20:34,190 --> 00:20:32,550
story that it's among the many uses the

455
00:20:37,490 --> 00:20:34,200
intelligence community found for this

456
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:37,500
stuff was trying to convince the very

457
00:20:42,170 --> 00:20:40,530
credulous Soviet Union who you know

458
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:42,180
would would make the occasional little

459
00:20:47,630 --> 00:20:44,370
news item about you know psychic powers

460
00:20:50,090 --> 00:20:47,640
or something like that the u.s. had

461
00:20:53,210 --> 00:20:50,100
their crashed flying saucer and so when

462
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:53,220
Star Wars comes along and Reagan drops

463
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:55,410
that careful hint to Gorbachov about

464
00:21:01,100 --> 00:20:57,600
perhaps the two of us will find we're

465
00:21:04,370 --> 00:21:01,110
fighting some other power-crazed

466
00:21:06,230 --> 00:21:04,380
in the background oh my god they really

467
00:21:08,830 --> 00:21:06,240
have that's where that's where they're

468
00:21:11,570 --> 00:21:08,840
getting this Star Wars the fraud rate

469
00:21:15,740 --> 00:21:11,580
actually contributed I believe to be a

470
00:21:18,650 --> 00:21:15,750
difficult war III think we be the social

471
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:18,660
idea that the US has had a crashed

472
00:21:24,049 --> 00:21:21,450
flying saucer since Roswell is entirely

473
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:24,059
too freaked out the Soviet Union I think

474
00:21:27,650 --> 00:21:25,890
that's what it's for the fact that the

475
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:27,660
Americans got their own public to

476
00:21:34,130 --> 00:21:30,960
believe that it just really sold the

477
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:34,140
whole the whole bit absolutely I mean we

478
00:21:38,539 --> 00:21:36,210
have this whole idea which Mirage man

479
00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:38,549
touches on of disinformation you know

480
00:21:43,370 --> 00:21:41,370
when we had Roswell the first the first

481
00:21:45,140 --> 00:21:43,380
headline in the newspapers was you know

482
00:21:46,370 --> 00:21:45,150
we captured a flying disc the next day

483
00:21:52,159 --> 00:21:46,380
nope it's a weather balloon

484
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:52,169
now story gets promoted exactly so right

485
00:21:56,780 --> 00:21:54,210
there from the start of modern UFO

486
00:21:59,000 --> 00:21:56,790
history I mean you have this idea of the

487
00:22:01,220 --> 00:21:59,010
military of the government using this to

488
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:01,230
their benefit however they can from a

489
00:22:05,690 --> 00:22:02,970
case-to-case basis I would venture a

490
00:22:08,539 --> 00:22:05,700
guess when it comes to UFO crashes or

491
00:22:10,490 --> 00:22:08,549
what is seen in our skies that could be

492
00:22:12,020 --> 00:22:10,500
threatening national security it's

493
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:12,030
fascinating to think that the

494
00:22:17,030 --> 00:22:14,850
intelligence agencies could say yep

495
00:22:19,669 --> 00:22:17,040
that's alien we're gonna go work on this

496
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:19,679
over here and in the you know in

497
00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:22,410
darkness and let them think it's aliens

498
00:22:27,710 --> 00:22:24,840
or vice versa and I think that's what

499
00:22:30,650 --> 00:22:27,720
your your comic covers as well to this

500
00:22:33,470 --> 00:22:30,660
this constant struggle between what is

501
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:33,480
actually happening to Arcadia and are

502
00:22:38,690 --> 00:22:35,520
there aliens actually abducting human

503
00:22:41,810 --> 00:22:38,700
because and or are they not so yeah I

504
00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:41,820
will keep that part secret but I think

505
00:22:47,419 --> 00:22:44,370
that multifarious use is made of the

506
00:22:50,330 --> 00:22:47,429
mythology I do believe the story of

507
00:22:51,620 --> 00:22:50,340
Regan whispering to Steven Spielberg you

508
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:51,630
will believe how much of this is true

509
00:22:57,799 --> 00:22:55,410
about et yes I think Reagan did that on

510
00:22:59,900 --> 00:22:57,809
mission I I think he was specifically

511
00:23:02,030 --> 00:22:59,910
briefed to do that because you know if

512
00:23:03,919 --> 00:23:02,040
you're a Spielberg you know you're gonna

513
00:23:07,370 --> 00:23:03,929
tell that to the first person you be

514
00:23:09,919 --> 00:23:07,380
have the White House idea III think so

515
00:23:10,580 --> 00:23:09,929
those are bragging rights for sure yeah

516
00:23:14,570 --> 00:23:10,590
yeah

517
00:23:16,970 --> 00:23:14,580
so yes multifarious I I think it's

518
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:16,980
the serpo documents that have meant to

519
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:18,690
have been written by various famous

520
00:23:24,170 --> 00:23:22,010
science fiction writers so this is a

521
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:24,180
brilliant mythology some of which has

522
00:23:30,530 --> 00:23:27,450
actually been written by a very well

523
00:23:33,980 --> 00:23:30,540
qualified people it's it's a tremendous

524
00:23:36,740 --> 00:23:33,990
body of work UFO mythology well done

525
00:23:38,150 --> 00:23:36,750
there science fiction writers of the

526
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:38,160
people to whom it actually happen

527
00:23:40,970 --> 00:23:40,050
because I don't believe these things are

528
00:23:43,490 --> 00:23:40,980
mutually exclusive

529
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:43,500
I think the pathology also includes

530
00:23:51,940 --> 00:23:47,090
accounts of people who were mistaken

531
00:23:56,570 --> 00:23:51,950
Lonnie Zamora I'm pretty sure so the

532
00:23:58,430 --> 00:23:56,580
future was it yes yes yes that's a I

533
00:23:59,900 --> 00:23:58,440
think I think he saw the lunar module on

534
00:24:05,330 --> 00:23:59,910
the bottom of a helicopter before it was

535
00:24:08,180 --> 00:24:05,340
Declassified mm-hmm or what's his the

536
00:24:14,630 --> 00:24:08,190
Chilean who was meant to have had sex

537
00:24:18,530 --> 00:24:14,640
with an alien woman in a Marcel blanking

538
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:18,540
I know it's failing my ufology 101 but

539
00:24:25,970 --> 00:24:21,330
it's pretty clear though that he

540
00:24:27,890 --> 00:24:25,980
actually got he seems to have been I kid

541
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:27,900
you not am I use these words realizing

542
00:24:32,390 --> 00:24:29,610
how ridiculous they said he seems to

543
00:24:34,090 --> 00:24:32,400
have been gassed by the CIA mm-hmm

544
00:24:36,590 --> 00:24:34,100
what we have on record are his

545
00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:36,600
hallucinations baby so those guys are

546
00:24:42,140 --> 00:24:39,510
mistaken but I also think I also think

547
00:24:44,060 --> 00:24:42,150
some people whether or not whether or

548
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:44,070
not if we were standing beside them we

549
00:24:47,330 --> 00:24:45,810
would have had the same experience who

550
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:47,340
knows well I think some other people

551
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:50,130
contributed honest records of things

552
00:24:54,290 --> 00:24:52,170
they actually experienced I'm not about

553
00:24:56,660 --> 00:24:54,300
to write off the intrusion of the

554
00:24:58,990 --> 00:24:56,670
impossible into the world at the same

555
00:25:03,410 --> 00:24:59,000
time all this stuff is multifarious and

556
00:25:07,850 --> 00:25:03,420
it may be just us guessing things that

557
00:25:10,310 --> 00:25:07,860
are not part of a wider reality that

558
00:25:12,140 --> 00:25:10,320
nevertheless do not add up to spacecraft

559
00:25:13,970 --> 00:25:12,150
from beyond the solar system you know

560
00:25:16,940 --> 00:25:13,980
very good point yes when we're dealing

561
00:25:19,310 --> 00:25:16,950
with such a multi-faceted vast

562
00:25:21,770 --> 00:25:19,320
phenomenon the the impetus to

563
00:25:25,070 --> 00:25:21,780
immediately go to alien is always there

564
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:25,080
it's so ingrained in us but I think it's

565
00:25:28,250 --> 00:25:27,210
important to ask different questions of

566
00:25:30,650 --> 00:25:28,260
what these you have

567
00:25:31,340 --> 00:25:30,660
could be as well so I think you're a

568
00:25:34,790 --> 00:25:31,350
great job

569
00:25:36,530 --> 00:25:34,800
Oh X's Chevrolet who says UFOs are far

570
00:25:39,470 --> 00:25:36,540
too interesting to be just alien space

571
00:25:41,060 --> 00:25:39,480
bro a very good point yes

572
00:25:44,150 --> 00:25:41,070
Paul in terms of that you know someone

573
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:44,160
like Jacques Vallee you clearly did your

574
00:25:48,740 --> 00:25:46,410
homework when it comes to the mythology

575
00:25:50,450 --> 00:25:48,750
were there any researchers that you turn

576
00:25:52,670 --> 00:25:50,460
to when you started looking into all

577
00:25:55,190 --> 00:25:52,680
this or was this just an obsession with

578
00:25:57,710 --> 00:25:55,200
the literature that's out there yeah I

579
00:25:59,990 --> 00:25:57,720
mean I've my life I've been reading this

580
00:26:01,700 --> 00:26:00,000
stepside I never really turned to a body

581
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:01,710
research I checked over a few things I

582
00:26:05,060 --> 00:26:03,690
remembered always read fourteenth I

583
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:05,070
actually I've stopped reading fourteen

584
00:26:09,050 --> 00:26:06,690
times just in the last couple of months

585
00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:09,060
but I've always been a reader of

586
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:10,710
fourteen times I've read every issue

587
00:26:16,820 --> 00:26:13,530
I've got a sort of vast database in my

588
00:26:19,970 --> 00:26:16,830
head how all this fits together and so I

589
00:26:22,250 --> 00:26:19,980
I knew where to go to find the research

590
00:26:24,830 --> 00:26:22,260
about a particular thing may be making

591
00:26:27,170 --> 00:26:24,840
some particular connections for example

592
00:26:29,300 --> 00:26:27,180
you know it's actually you find in the

593
00:26:33,650 --> 00:26:29,310
history of science fiction much more

594
00:26:38,510 --> 00:26:33,660
stuff about the shaver mystery and how

595
00:26:42,530 --> 00:26:38,520
the I remember Lemuria and the oh great

596
00:26:45,610 --> 00:26:42,540
Ray Palmer how his extraordinary how his

597
00:26:49,340 --> 00:26:45,620
editorial is a de toriel direction of

598
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:49,350
amazing kind of brought Ford all this

599
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:51,690
impossible paranoid stuff into the

600
00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:54,570
mainstream in an enormous way just

601
00:27:02,270 --> 00:26:57,570
immediately before Roswell and that

602
00:27:06,380 --> 00:27:02,280
whole huge culture of you know the D

603
00:27:08,150 --> 00:27:06,390
rose and the D rose under the earth who

604
00:27:10,310 --> 00:27:08,160
are influencing human beings above the

605
00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:10,320
earth and you see their their ships

606
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:12,480
coming out to the ground and those UFOs

607
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:15,360
it was it was huge cultural phenomena

608
00:27:19,700 --> 00:27:18,000
that vanished completely and that isn't

609
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:19,710
really talked about very much now and

610
00:27:24,860 --> 00:27:22,770
that's much more recorded in in context

611
00:27:27,380 --> 00:27:24,870
in the histories of science fiction than

612
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:27,390
it is really in UFO mythology because it

613
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:29,370
doesn't quite fit with with the

614
00:27:36,410 --> 00:27:31,650
mythology is later established you know

615
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:36,420
exactly I mean amazingly that going from

616
00:27:41,670 --> 00:27:39,840
from our mythology Ray Palmer his name

617
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:41,680
lives on as the

618
00:27:48,330 --> 00:27:45,130
as a hero of what of DC's what are they

619
00:27:51,690 --> 00:27:48,340
called the current DC mm show city and

620
00:27:53,970 --> 00:27:51,700
legends legends of tomorrow Ray Palmer

621
00:27:56,750 --> 00:27:53,980
is the Atem and I'm pretty sure that

622
00:27:59,630 --> 00:27:56,760
he's named after that ray power but yeah

623
00:28:01,980 --> 00:27:59,640
because ray publicist fiction editor is

624
00:28:03,980 --> 00:28:01,990
contemporaneous with that that character

625
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:03,990
being created perfect

626
00:28:10,470 --> 00:28:08,290
what a perfect Easter Egg well I mean

627
00:28:12,540 --> 00:28:10,480
well you've got someone like Ray Palmer

628
00:28:15,270 --> 00:28:12,550
you've got someone like John keel you've

629
00:28:18,030 --> 00:28:15,280
got someone like Mark who is the other

630
00:28:20,250 --> 00:28:18,040
guy I'm thinking of gray Barker in terms

631
00:28:22,590 --> 00:28:20,260
of the men in black phenomenon now this

632
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:22,600
is another you know subset that we

633
00:28:27,090 --> 00:28:25,120
consider a part of ufology and I was so

634
00:28:29,250 --> 00:28:27,100
happy to see that in saucer country you

635
00:28:30,990 --> 00:28:29,260
brought this story up in a very unique

636
00:28:32,970 --> 00:28:31,000
way when I haven't really thought about

637
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:32,980
when I haven't seen in the stories and

638
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:34,690
that's it was very interesting how you

639
00:28:38,940 --> 00:28:36,370
handled the men in black and what they

640
00:28:40,980 --> 00:28:38,950
may actually have been would you mind

641
00:28:43,020 --> 00:28:40,990
commenting on that I grabbed this

642
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:43,030
wholesale for the UFO researcher called

643
00:28:48,660 --> 00:28:46,930
Jerry Rogers who I saw talked at a 40

644
00:28:50,670 --> 00:28:48,670
and time zone convention and she did an

645
00:28:54,210 --> 00:28:50,680
hour-long lecture purely on the subject

646
00:28:59,850 --> 00:28:54,220
all the men in black as a USAF hazing

647
00:29:05,240 --> 00:28:59,860
ritual with all sorts of convincing

648
00:29:08,310 --> 00:29:05,250
detail that when this first started the

649
00:29:11,340 --> 00:29:08,320
uniforms they wore and the cars they

650
00:29:12,780 --> 00:29:11,350
drove were just what you'd expect from a

651
00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:12,790
visit from the feds

652
00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:15,310
it because the rules seem to be set in

653
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:18,010
stone they stay that way through the

654
00:29:22,530 --> 00:29:20,290
subsequent decade the rules being set in

655
00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:22,540
stone like that sort of says somebody's

656
00:29:27,390 --> 00:29:24,910
written the rules now bear somewhere

657
00:29:29,340 --> 00:29:27,400
it doesn't seem it seems odd for an

658
00:29:34,410 --> 00:29:29,350
actual cosmic entity to behave that way

659
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:34,420
and also the base sometimes they haven't

660
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:38,650
been very good at this and and the the

661
00:29:44,190 --> 00:29:41,650
cut the rubbish method black when they

662
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:44,200
show up drop cultural details that just

663
00:29:49,260 --> 00:29:46,330
make you laugh and bet you go oh cowboy

664
00:29:53,220 --> 00:29:49,270
yeah some of them are very good some of

665
00:29:55,050 --> 00:29:53,230
them a bit rubbish she just pointed out

666
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:55,060
how this the whole continued

667
00:29:59,400 --> 00:29:57,090
fits with the idea that this is a

668
00:30:01,620 --> 00:29:59,410
continuing practical joke that it's been

669
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:01,630
kept going over decades in the form of

670
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:03,490
something written down in USAF mess

671
00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:06,130
holes that would not surprise me one bit

672
00:30:10,590 --> 00:30:08,920
especially like you say I Jack Chua Lee

673
00:30:11,940 --> 00:30:10,600
just did an episode on men in black

674
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:11,950
where we talked about some of the more

675
00:30:18,210 --> 00:30:14,650
ridiculous and bizarre accounts of them

676
00:30:20,610 --> 00:30:18,220
and Lennie said you know the things they

677
00:30:24,420 --> 00:30:20,620
would bring up it's just it made no

678
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:24,430
sense whatsoever and again only I think

679
00:30:30,060 --> 00:30:27,330
to further confuse a UFO witness so

680
00:30:31,290 --> 00:30:30,070
fascinating yeah I mean I'm happy to

681
00:30:32,970 --> 00:30:31,300
hear that that came from someone like

682
00:30:35,220 --> 00:30:32,980
Jenny Randall's who I have a great

683
00:30:38,550 --> 00:30:35,230
respect for so that's the interesting

684
00:30:41,820 --> 00:30:38,560
with qu'il as always I think he's on his

685
00:30:43,530 --> 00:30:41,830
own his own long strange journey and I

686
00:30:48,330 --> 00:30:43,540
don't think that's what happened to him

687
00:30:51,060 --> 00:30:48,340
but I Indrid cold I have no idea it's

688
00:30:53,790 --> 00:30:51,070
such a beautiful name it's such a again

689
00:30:56,010 --> 00:30:53,800
such a writerly invention whether that's

690
00:30:57,390 --> 00:30:56,020
his invention or whether that's an

691
00:30:59,850 --> 00:30:57,400
invention of some kind of cosmic

692
00:31:02,130 --> 00:30:59,860
trickster who knows absolutely it's it's

693
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:02,140
very poetic the the idea of this

694
00:31:07,050 --> 00:31:04,690
grinning man showing up and having a

695
00:31:09,540 --> 00:31:07,060
conversation and leaving it's it's

696
00:31:12,300 --> 00:31:09,550
fascinating you know I'm tying in to the

697
00:31:14,130 --> 00:31:12,310
whole Mothman prophecy as well drunk

698
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:14,140
he'll I do agree with you is on his own

699
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:15,610
personal journey you know whether or not

700
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:18,970
he did witness men in black or this you

701
00:31:24,210 --> 00:31:21,610
know this this singular figure that

702
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:24,220
we've come to know as injury cult I'm

703
00:31:29,940 --> 00:31:25,810
deeply fascinated by that as well

704
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:29,950
something maybe maybe we we could see in

705
00:31:38,550 --> 00:31:33,250
future saucer state follow-ups who knows

706
00:31:41,340 --> 00:31:38,560
well that's the thing yes it's really

707
00:31:44,730 --> 00:31:41,350
important to me that you know we we are

708
00:31:47,310 --> 00:31:44,740
still moving towards this ending that

709
00:31:50,550 --> 00:31:47,320
we've had in mind all the law and again

710
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:50,560
unlike the x-files which is a different

711
00:31:54,690 --> 00:31:52,480
beast it's got a it's got different aims

712
00:31:56,670 --> 00:31:54,700
it wants to keep going we know where

713
00:31:58,860 --> 00:31:56,680
we've been going and we have I know what

714
00:32:01,170 --> 00:31:58,870
the last pages and we are going to

715
00:32:03,930 --> 00:32:01,180
answer all our questions and tie little

716
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:03,940
bows around every single mystery this is

717
00:32:08,100 --> 00:32:06,370
really important to me hey guys I have

718
00:32:08,850 --> 00:32:08,110
to interrupt this week's interview for

719
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:08,860
just a moment

720
00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:10,690
remind you once again that somewhere in

721
00:32:15,539 --> 00:32:12,490
the skies is brought to you by the

722
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amazing folks over at hellofresh next

723
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:17,170
time you're listening to the show while

724
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:19,210
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737
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738
00:33:00,330 --> 00:32:54,970
podcast network and hello fresh and now

739
00:33:02,310 --> 00:33:00,340
back to the show so yeah it's it just

740
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:02,320
occurs to me that the strange thing

741
00:33:08,130 --> 00:33:04,450
about this missile mythology is that

742
00:33:10,409 --> 00:33:08,140
when somebody who knows them encounters

743
00:33:12,990 --> 00:33:10,419
the men in black who's who is aware of

744
00:33:18,930 --> 00:33:13,000
the pathology nobody ever just put sweat

745
00:33:22,020 --> 00:33:18,940
in a headlock slams the door grabs this

746
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:22,030
stuff and rubs that's a very good point

747
00:33:26,909 --> 00:33:24,370
you even bring this up in saucer country

748
00:33:28,740 --> 00:33:26,919
like why when you're on the ship if

749
00:33:30,780 --> 00:33:28,750
you're being abducted just grab

750
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:30,790
something off the table for God's sake

751
00:33:37,770 --> 00:33:35,679
yeah I did that seed of Michael where he

752
00:33:42,180 --> 00:33:37,780
has his full subduction Barrett event

753
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:42,190
put there by a hypnotist and um you know

754
00:33:46,530 --> 00:33:44,650
hypnotic recall that he actually gets

755
00:33:48,659 --> 00:33:46,540
into the business of fighting the grains

756
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:48,669
that we have a little grain doing come

757
00:33:54,270 --> 00:33:52,450
through obviously the the range of

758
00:33:56,669 --> 00:33:54,280
things that you can imagine the Grays

759
00:33:59,370 --> 00:33:56,679
doing that are hilarious is pretty tidy

760
00:34:01,950 --> 00:33:59,380
yeah as soon as soon as they start to do

761
00:34:04,919 --> 00:34:01,960
anything but but Lou robinus Lee they

762
00:34:07,620 --> 00:34:04,929
become fairly ridiculous the fact that

763
00:34:10,710 --> 00:34:07,630
whenever we do seize a bit of fairy land

764
00:34:15,149 --> 00:34:10,720
whenever it's given to us like cakes all

765
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:15,159
this food that aliens give people it

766
00:34:22,109 --> 00:34:16,690
always turns out to be fairly stodgy

767
00:34:27,470 --> 00:34:23,940
they have they have extraterrestrial

768
00:34:30,859 --> 00:34:27,480
wheat mills there is rational flour

769
00:34:35,190 --> 00:34:30,869
they're not gluten-free I would assume

770
00:34:37,139 --> 00:34:35,200
have become free at this point yeah on a

771
00:34:38,879 --> 00:34:37,149
more serious note Paul you you also

772
00:34:41,609 --> 00:34:38,889
bring up another really interesting

773
00:34:43,559 --> 00:34:41,619
aspect of the mythology in terms of what

774
00:34:45,359 --> 00:34:43,569
I would assume is sort of connected to

775
00:34:47,940 --> 00:34:45,369
project Bluebook but you have this idea

776
00:34:51,210 --> 00:34:47,950
of the Bluebirds angle in your story

777
00:34:54,029 --> 00:34:51,220
this you know black-budget top-secret

778
00:34:55,980 --> 00:34:54,039
thing going on behind closed doors i

779
00:34:58,200 --> 00:34:55,990
loved it loved it you know possibly

780
00:35:00,720 --> 00:34:58,210
possibly being the keyword reverse

781
00:35:03,329 --> 00:35:00,730
engineering UFO craft how did this whole

782
00:35:05,130 --> 00:35:03,339
idea come about in saw circus well they

783
00:35:06,779 --> 00:35:05,140
used to work for the government and then

784
00:35:09,569 --> 00:35:06,789
they went off into private enterprise

785
00:35:11,940 --> 00:35:09,579
all this came about because I started to

786
00:35:14,220 --> 00:35:11,950
read articles about the fact that there

787
00:35:16,319 --> 00:35:14,230
were aerospace professionals who are

788
00:35:19,019 --> 00:35:16,329
interested in this stuff who would meet

789
00:35:20,789 --> 00:35:19,029
up clandestinely without not under any

790
00:35:22,499 --> 00:35:20,799
kind of name that would indicate what

791
00:35:24,299 --> 00:35:22,509
they were interested in because they

792
00:35:27,059 --> 00:35:24,309
were very afraid of ridicule I'd also

793
00:35:29,819 --> 00:35:27,069
been reading books about some of which I

794
00:35:33,989 --> 00:35:29,829
think were really not good journalism

795
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:33,999
about engineer aerospace engineers who

796
00:35:39,479 --> 00:35:36,640
had found effects which weren't

797
00:35:41,279 --> 00:35:39,489
supported in physics the idea that

798
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:41,289
sometimes engineering can get there

799
00:35:46,769 --> 00:35:43,599
first and start developing an effect

800
00:35:48,690 --> 00:35:46,779
that's not fully understood I think it's

801
00:35:51,150 --> 00:35:48,700
entirely possible that you could

802
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:51,160
encounter something for which there is

803
00:35:55,799 --> 00:35:52,930
not a theoretical background and the

804
00:35:58,019 --> 00:35:55,809
Bluebirds are about private enterprise

805
00:35:59,249 --> 00:35:58,029
doing that and running with it and of

806
00:36:01,470 --> 00:35:59,259
course they've got this mythological

807
00:36:03,089 --> 00:36:01,480
leader who's meant to be still alive

808
00:36:07,170 --> 00:36:03,099
having fought in the Battle of Britain

809
00:36:10,410 --> 00:36:07,180
who's done all the fictional things that

810
00:36:12,509 --> 00:36:10,420
you know every time somebody says oh I

811
00:36:16,620 --> 00:36:12,519
was a member of this special ops force

812
00:36:18,450 --> 00:36:16,630
who went to get down UFOs in Cambodia it

813
00:36:21,210 --> 00:36:18,460
turns out we can't find them no entry

814
00:36:23,099 --> 00:36:21,220
credentials anywhere you know yeah he

815
00:36:24,539 --> 00:36:23,109
did all that stuff you know he was on

816
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:24,549
the moon at the same time as the Apollo

817
00:36:32,700 --> 00:36:29,530
astronauts always think so yeah

818
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:32,710
and it's trying to bring all the

819
00:36:38,070 --> 00:36:36,490
different aspects together and I have to

820
00:36:40,620 --> 00:36:38,080
have some different plot lines to

821
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:40,630
explore some stuff which go to the

822
00:36:44,490 --> 00:36:42,610
places that our heroes can't go you know

823
00:36:46,650 --> 00:36:44,500
mm-hmm absolutely

824
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:46,660
well I mean another big part of that is

825
00:36:51,470 --> 00:36:49,090
the folkloric aspect you have you know

826
00:36:54,330 --> 00:36:51,480
large sections within the book that

827
00:36:56,220 --> 00:36:54,340
comment on this idea of faeries which I

828
00:36:58,200 --> 00:36:56,230
found very interesting this is a big

829
00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:58,210
part of the mythology when you look at

830
00:37:02,190 --> 00:36:59,920
someone like Jacques Vallee who's looked

831
00:37:05,100 --> 00:37:02,200
at this very culturally and looked at

832
00:37:07,170 --> 00:37:05,110
the evolution of the idea of alien

833
00:37:10,140 --> 00:37:07,180
throughout history you know from magic

834
00:37:12,420 --> 00:37:10,150
to mysticism to what we have today this

835
00:37:14,550 --> 00:37:12,430
idea of the gray well the way that

836
00:37:17,250 --> 00:37:14,560
fairies and aliens map onto each other

837
00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:17,260
so completely that they're doing the

838
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:20,320
same cultural things and also just for a

839
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:22,570
moment in the middle European aviators

840
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:24,970
during the at the end of the 19th

841
00:37:30,990 --> 00:37:27,760
century when America had was overflown

842
00:37:34,110 --> 00:37:31,000
by Jules Verne style airship that are

843
00:37:35,610 --> 00:37:34,120
just a few years ahead of current

844
00:37:37,860 --> 00:37:35,620
technology this isn't the time when

845
00:37:40,410 --> 00:37:37,870
Zeppelin is just flying prototypes that

846
00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:40,420
can't get further than 100 yards in

847
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:42,910
Germany you know right the Americas

848
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:44,530
being Nova flown by these mysterious

849
00:37:49,860 --> 00:37:47,530
airships and people meet the occupants

850
00:37:53,250 --> 00:37:49,870
from them all the time and they are

851
00:37:54,300 --> 00:37:53,260
inventors from Europe who swear the

852
00:37:55,980 --> 00:37:54,310
locals to secrecy

853
00:37:59,720 --> 00:37:55,990
because they are is they're about to go

854
00:38:12,980 --> 00:37:59,730
home and you know apply for that patent

855
00:38:19,830 --> 00:38:16,850
these people cannot be they cannot exist

856
00:38:22,050 --> 00:38:19,840
that's a very good point well I guess

857
00:38:24,300 --> 00:38:22,060
but in terms of the the aliens you

858
00:38:25,590 --> 00:38:24,310
choose to cover in saucer country we

859
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:25,600
have the greys and we have the

860
00:38:31,860 --> 00:38:28,530
reptilians which I thought was hilarious

861
00:38:33,420 --> 00:38:31,870
we found some ancient Nordics yes yes we

862
00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:33,430
do have the ancient Nordics as well we

863
00:38:36,980 --> 00:38:35,110
have the whole contactee movement which

864
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:36,990
is something we didn't talk about but

865
00:38:42,060 --> 00:38:40,210
yes very fascinating the aliens you

866
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:42,070
choose to involve it with in this

867
00:38:47,260 --> 00:38:45,050
narrative what

868
00:38:49,330 --> 00:38:47,270
oh you can't forget Hopkins felt the

869
00:38:51,850 --> 00:38:49,340
governs are one of my favorite stories

870
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:51,860
of all time when I saw that that you

871
00:38:57,730 --> 00:38:54,770
know almost splash page that Ryan and

872
00:39:00,160 --> 00:38:57,740
you decided to do uh it was gorgeous and

873
00:39:02,850 --> 00:39:00,170
it was the first time that really the

874
00:39:05,500 --> 00:39:02,860
Hopkinsville case really came into full

875
00:39:07,930 --> 00:39:05,510
full effect for me I was like oh my god

876
00:39:10,390 --> 00:39:07,940
I would have been terrified I think I

877
00:39:13,690 --> 00:39:10,400
think actually the a recent article

878
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:13,700
which talked about mating ELLs mm-hmm

879
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:15,650
how there are these enormous local owls

880
00:39:21,490 --> 00:39:18,650
around there they hang on to each other

881
00:39:24,340 --> 00:39:21,500
and flap about in twosomes being

882
00:39:26,410 --> 00:39:24,350
genuinely terrifying on the ground I do

883
00:39:28,210 --> 00:39:26,420
wonder if those poor guys really were

884
00:39:30,310 --> 00:39:28,220
besieged by something and it was those

885
00:39:33,430 --> 00:39:30,320
owls that is a very interesting question

886
00:39:37,090 --> 00:39:33,440
yeah but no I like oh I like the vast

887
00:39:38,980 --> 00:39:37,100
variety the and I especially like the

888
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:38,990
ones that never quite got off the ground

889
00:39:43,390 --> 00:39:41,810
anybody who meets insect people you know

890
00:39:44,830 --> 00:39:43,400
their kin they tend to be a one-off they

891
00:39:48,730 --> 00:39:44,840
don't they don't we take their detail

892
00:39:53,830 --> 00:39:48,740
behind yeah and that guy from Birmingham

893
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:53,840
who met basically Gandalf an hour r2d2 I

894
00:40:01,900 --> 00:39:57,050
know we shouldn't laugh bye come on yeah

895
00:40:04,090 --> 00:40:01,910
absolutely but there is nothing more

896
00:40:07,870 --> 00:40:04,100
silly about meeting somebody who's got a

897
00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:07,880
copyright on them yes the reptilians

898
00:40:14,770 --> 00:40:12,110
there really is but and of course the

899
00:40:17,590 --> 00:40:14,780
reptilians have Bell becomes something a

900
00:40:18,670 --> 00:40:17,600
bit more fashionable than the greys one

901
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:18,680
thing that's really interesting is that

902
00:40:23,470 --> 00:40:20,570
none of this stuff is fashionable

903
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:23,480
anymore that we're actually getting to

904
00:40:27,850 --> 00:40:25,610
the end of you herb UFO mythology I

905
00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:27,860
think I think unless something some new

906
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:30,050
new cycle comes along some new

907
00:40:34,750 --> 00:40:32,450
development comes along it feels like a

908
00:40:38,470 --> 00:40:34,760
field that's increasingly talking just

909
00:40:40,510 --> 00:40:38,480
to itself yeah I think basically the

910
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:40,520
success story of the greys kind of

911
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:42,770
finished it off the reptilians are sort

912
00:40:49,810 --> 00:40:47,570
of its last gasp and it's and what the

913
00:40:51,370 --> 00:40:49,820
reptilians bring bring with them I mean

914
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:51,380
the way this whole field has been

915
00:40:55,420 --> 00:40:53,330
swinging to the right from the

916
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:55,430
contactees which is a fairly liberal

917
00:41:00,550 --> 00:40:56,050
move

918
00:41:02,380 --> 00:41:00,560
all the way to post cattle mutilation on

919
00:41:04,930 --> 00:41:02,390
we're going further and further into

920
00:41:06,730 --> 00:41:04,940
right-wing fantasies and conspiracy

921
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:06,740
theories and the reptilians are the

922
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:11,650
height of that you know the this strange

923
00:41:16,510 --> 00:41:13,970
equivocation between reptilian aliens

924
00:41:20,230 --> 00:41:16,520
and Jewish people which is abominable

925
00:41:24,070 --> 00:41:20,240
and and is sort of the secret language

926
00:41:27,390 --> 00:41:24,080
of conspiracy theory you know there are

927
00:41:30,430 --> 00:41:27,400
those who say reptilian a reptilian bean

928
00:41:32,140 --> 00:41:30,440
reptilian alien at those that mean you

929
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:32,150
know perfectly normal people who they

930
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:34,400
don't like very much very good point in

931
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:39,290
here and so you know it's I wanted to

932
00:41:44,890 --> 00:41:42,290
explore the you know the sheer variety

933
00:41:46,750 --> 00:41:44,900
and I love the old museums I love all

934
00:41:50,530 --> 00:41:46,760
thought and all of its are all thoughts

935
00:41:52,030 --> 00:41:50,540
is that a fabulous day and love it we

936
00:42:00,070 --> 00:41:52,040
have that piece of paper with all the

937
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:00,080
names written across south or north on

938
00:42:03,910 --> 00:42:02,210
which i think is great but uh paul you

939
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:03,920
that that is a very good point in

940
00:42:08,410 --> 00:42:05,690
something i haven't really touched on

941
00:42:10,930 --> 00:42:08,420
the show III don't get political often

942
00:42:13,780 --> 00:42:10,940
but i think what your your book does

943
00:42:16,420 --> 00:42:13,790
well is bring this idea of the alien

944
00:42:19,390 --> 00:42:16,430
forward not meaning extraterrestrial but

945
00:42:22,750 --> 00:42:19,400
just other and the idea that we live

946
00:42:26,890 --> 00:42:22,760
here in america no not just america all

947
00:42:30,609 --> 00:42:26,900
across all across the world we live in a

948
00:42:34,060 --> 00:42:30,619
very extreme tender filled world right

949
00:42:37,300 --> 00:42:34,070
now and like you said I do see within

950
00:42:42,310 --> 00:42:37,310
that small subset of the UFO community

951
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:42,320
or UF ology this extreme leaning right

952
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:45,170
now which is extremely disappointing to

953
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:47,330
someone like myself who is on the

954
00:42:52,930 --> 00:42:50,450
younger side sees a lot of very rational

955
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:52,940
tolerant young people getting into the

956
00:42:58,420 --> 00:42:55,490
UFO field and coming face to face with

957
00:43:01,720 --> 00:42:58,430
the reality that it's sort of being run

958
00:43:04,170 --> 00:43:01,730
by the David Ickes of the world things

959
00:43:07,420 --> 00:43:04,180
like that that there's this ambiguous

960
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:07,430
like you say reptilian thing that

961
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:09,170
they're going with which

962
00:43:15,130 --> 00:43:12,880
is not alien it is a small you know

963
00:43:18,490 --> 00:43:15,140
different race of human being that

964
00:43:20,410 --> 00:43:18,500
they're they're commenting on the this

965
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:20,420
is very fascinating I think your comic

966
00:43:25,690 --> 00:43:22,400
was ahead of the time and in looking at

967
00:43:27,609 --> 00:43:25,700
that that that that Arcadia is searching

968
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:27,619
for answers to what has happened to her

969
00:43:33,069 --> 00:43:30,170
but at the core of it it's this idea of

970
00:43:39,609 --> 00:43:33,079
people not wanting the other to be here

971
00:43:42,700 --> 00:43:39,619
exactly exactly it's an expression of

972
00:43:45,430 --> 00:43:42,710
fear largely as fear of the unknown is

973
00:43:46,660 --> 00:43:45,440
fear of the other and it's also an

974
00:43:48,220 --> 00:43:46,670
expression of powerlessness

975
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:48,230
you don't get much more powerless than

976
00:43:53,049 --> 00:43:51,680
an abductee and it also became an

977
00:43:55,210 --> 00:43:53,059
expression of the idea that the

978
00:43:58,140 --> 00:43:55,220
government is hiding the most wonderful

979
00:44:01,779 --> 00:43:58,150
things about the universe and you know

980
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:01,789
I'm quite a fan of David Clarke the

981
00:44:06,839 --> 00:44:05,210
British researcher who went from I mean

982
00:44:10,269 --> 00:44:06,849
I wasn't called him a skeptic because

983
00:44:12,970 --> 00:44:10,279
there are skeptics who just enjoy

984
00:44:16,539 --> 00:44:12,980
laughing at this stuff and I'm not with

985
00:44:19,539 --> 00:44:16,549
them at all i I find that boorish and

986
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:19,549
actually as true believer ish and

987
00:44:24,279 --> 00:44:22,490
fundamentalist is anybody who fully buys

988
00:44:27,809 --> 00:44:24,289
into one of the conspiracy theories that

989
00:44:30,930 --> 00:44:27,819
he's a small smaller skeptic who

990
00:44:34,630 --> 00:44:30,940
basically doesn't think there is

991
00:44:36,309 --> 00:44:34,640
anything alien to it and he's done a

992
00:44:39,339 --> 00:44:36,319
huge amount of research into the

993
00:44:42,220 --> 00:44:39,349
mythology and one of the things that he

994
00:44:44,559 --> 00:44:42,230
runs with is how the British government

995
00:44:48,490 --> 00:44:44,569
seemed to have a genuine interest for a

996
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:48,500
while and set up a desk in to you know

997
00:44:54,609 --> 00:44:51,650
record instances of people encountering

998
00:44:58,769 --> 00:44:54,619
UFOs gathered this stuff for a long time

999
00:45:01,630 --> 00:44:58,779
and then just basically got bored and

1000
00:45:03,759 --> 00:45:01,640
followed it all the way stopped having

1001
00:45:05,980 --> 00:45:03,769
the desk and laid beat everybody off and

1002
00:45:09,249 --> 00:45:05,990
you know it's kind of the opposite of

1003
00:45:10,660 --> 00:45:09,259
the response you'd expect if there was

1004
00:45:13,089 --> 00:45:10,670
anything to it they seem to think it

1005
00:45:14,950 --> 00:45:13,099
they seem to become convinced but there

1006
00:45:16,210 --> 00:45:14,960
was nothing there well yeah and I mean

1007
00:45:18,519 --> 00:45:16,220
that's something that I think your main

1008
00:45:20,829 --> 00:45:18,529
character is searching for as well where

1009
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:20,839
she's searching for an answer to what

1010
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:22,330
may have happened but you

1011
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:24,490
No maybe it's not what we all expect

1012
00:45:27,750 --> 00:45:26,290
we've had so many projects here in the

1013
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:27,760
US that have looked at the UFO

1014
00:45:31,770 --> 00:45:29,170
phenomenon and they all eventually

1015
00:45:34,590 --> 00:45:31,780
fizzle whether that's due to finances or

1016
00:45:36,180 --> 00:45:34,600
what but you do have to wonder you know

1017
00:45:38,340 --> 00:45:36,190
well I think I think it's because the

1018
00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:38,350
the interest here is nothing not in

1019
00:45:44,910 --> 00:45:41,650
nuts-and-bolts if you follow the source

1020
00:45:47,370 --> 00:45:44,920
estate is an issue that involves a lot

1021
00:45:50,220 --> 00:45:47,380
of quotes from somebody I'm very fond of

1022
00:45:52,470 --> 00:45:50,230
the writer Jeffrey who is a

1023
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:52,480
historian of religion who takes UFO

1024
00:45:57,470 --> 00:45:55,930
mythology seriously in as he does any

1025
00:46:02,100 --> 00:45:57,480
other religion he writes about and

1026
00:46:05,010 --> 00:46:02,110
here's his view on it is tremendous in

1027
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:05,020
very very refreshing and treats people

1028
00:46:09,870 --> 00:46:07,210
who have these experiences very fairly I

1029
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:09,880
think and you go away from him feeling

1030
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:14,770
that the bounds of reality do sometimes

1031
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:18,370
fray at the edges he points out how

1032
00:46:24,900 --> 00:46:22,090
rightly the phenomena is how like a body

1033
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:24,910
of all fiction but that doesn't actually

1034
00:46:31,970 --> 00:46:28,330
make sense either in there are all sorts

1035
00:46:34,110 --> 00:46:31,980
of coincidental and beautiful and poetic

1036
00:46:37,020 --> 00:46:34,120
links with the things that have happened

1037
00:46:40,590 --> 00:46:37,030
across UFO mythology which seem to

1038
00:46:43,620 --> 00:46:40,600
employee structure and reason and

1039
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:43,630
purpose but you know and unless there

1040
00:46:50,190 --> 00:46:46,240
has been a single team of writers show

1041
00:46:52,020 --> 00:46:50,200
rubbing this thing for until now that's

1042
00:46:54,140 --> 00:46:52,030
just not possible under the rules of

1043
00:46:57,450 --> 00:46:54,150
reality as we know them yeah absolutely

1044
00:46:59,100 --> 00:46:57,460
yeah and I think that you know someone

1045
00:47:01,320 --> 00:46:59,110
like propel brings up a good point that

1046
00:47:03,570 --> 00:47:01,330
this is more about us than it ever is

1047
00:47:05,730 --> 00:47:03,580
about whatever is out there it is

1048
00:47:08,970 --> 00:47:05,740
shining a mirror on ourselves

1049
00:47:11,580 --> 00:47:08,980
it's brilliant quote about um the idea

1050
00:47:14,370 --> 00:47:11,590
of very over UFO without server is

1051
00:47:17,190 --> 00:47:14,380
ridiculous yeah exactly

1052
00:47:21,060 --> 00:47:17,200
yeah the whole tree falling in a forest

1053
00:47:23,490 --> 00:47:21,070
I love it in terms of the idea of what

1054
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:23,500
the government might know Paul what do

1055
00:47:28,620 --> 00:47:26,530
you personally believe our aliens

1056
00:47:31,650 --> 00:47:28,630
visiting the planet does our government

1057
00:47:33,720 --> 00:47:31,660
know anything about what's going on well

1058
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:33,730
I I think the governments of the Western

1059
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:35,890
world only

1060
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:37,690
I think they think they've made it up

1061
00:47:42,059 --> 00:47:40,210
entirely I think at the highest levels

1062
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:42,069
of the intelligence community in the

1063
00:47:46,259 --> 00:47:43,930
States those who are concerned with this

1064
00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:46,269
stuff that they pretty much think that

1065
00:47:50,849 --> 00:47:48,400
UFOs are their baby that this is

1066
00:47:53,940 --> 00:47:50,859
something they wrote do I think aliens

1067
00:47:57,150 --> 00:47:53,950
have ever visited earth maybe once or

1068
00:47:59,700 --> 00:47:57,160
twice maybe this is a huge cargo cult

1069
00:48:02,309 --> 00:47:59,710
and maybe maybe it touched the earth

1070
00:48:06,269 --> 00:48:02,319
once and we reacted so hugely that it's

1071
00:48:08,670 --> 00:48:06,279
we created a religion around it I I have

1072
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:08,680
sometimes all Barney and Betty Hill i I

1073
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:11,890
think they are either great American

1074
00:48:18,359 --> 00:48:14,890
writers an amazing mythologist

1075
00:48:21,089 --> 00:48:18,369
sue who basically put together huge

1076
00:48:23,450 --> 00:48:21,099
strands of this mythology out of nothing

1077
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:23,460
I'm a huge fan of the Outer Limits

1078
00:48:29,490 --> 00:48:25,930
people who talk about Barney and Betty

1079
00:48:31,049 --> 00:48:29,500
Hills experiences in relation to the

1080
00:48:33,660 --> 00:48:31,059
episode of the Outer Limits that had

1081
00:48:35,819 --> 00:48:33,670
gone out the previous week which is an

1082
00:48:37,859 --> 00:48:35,829
episode called the bolero shield as a

1083
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:37,869
huge fan of the Outer Limits and a

1084
00:48:43,710 --> 00:48:41,200
follow UFO mythology all the time I was

1085
00:48:45,390 --> 00:48:43,720
growing up I never associated those two

1086
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:45,400
things and I still don't

1087
00:48:51,299 --> 00:48:48,490
I think it's an enormous stretch the

1088
00:48:53,700 --> 00:48:51,309
Bolero shield bear has no narrative

1089
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:53,710
elements that play into the UFO

1090
00:48:58,410 --> 00:48:56,650
mythology the only connection is these

1091
00:48:59,999 --> 00:48:58,420
ray beings that have rather wraparound

1092
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:00,009
eyes and they didn't look very much like

1093
00:49:04,589 --> 00:49:02,490
the greys obviously they really done and

1094
00:49:06,450 --> 00:49:04,599
also there's no proof that Barney and

1095
00:49:08,670 --> 00:49:06,460
Betty Hill ever saw it and the outer

1096
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:08,680
limits at that point not a very big show

1097
00:49:12,930 --> 00:49:11,170
you know not rating very well um so

1098
00:49:14,940 --> 00:49:12,940
blowing that out of the water

1099
00:49:17,220 --> 00:49:14,950
I think they seem to have come up with

1100
00:49:20,970 --> 00:49:17,230
either through it happening to them or

1101
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:20,980
through pulling just amazing things out

1102
00:49:25,950 --> 00:49:23,410
of the collective unconscious under

1103
00:49:26,940 --> 00:49:25,960
hypnosis and the fact that details of

1104
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:26,950
their experience

1105
00:49:33,299 --> 00:49:30,400
we're edited out to the later mythology

1106
00:49:36,450 --> 00:49:33,309
you know the guys the little guys they

1107
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:36,460
meet were in uniforms with caps like the

1108
00:49:44,009 --> 00:49:41,650
biker in the Village People right and we

1109
00:49:47,099 --> 00:49:44,019
you know that that gets edited out

1110
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:47,109
because it feels silly yes

1111
00:49:52,260 --> 00:49:50,050
Bette his star map the way that

1112
00:49:55,860 --> 00:49:52,270
seems to relate to you I I know it's

1113
00:49:59,640 --> 00:49:55,870
been debunked but again she actually saw

1114
00:50:01,860 --> 00:49:59,650
something and drew it you know and and

1115
00:50:06,090 --> 00:50:01,870
there's all sorts of little features

1116
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:06,100
which she genuinely they have veracity

1117
00:50:11,310 --> 00:50:08,410
to them they feel they feel like they

1118
00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:11,320
could be real and that and that applies

1119
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:13,510
to almost nothing else in the literature

1120
00:50:19,230 --> 00:50:15,850
III think something interesting happened

1121
00:50:21,210 --> 00:50:19,240
to them we may never find out what maybe

1122
00:50:24,180 --> 00:50:21,220
that's not the one or two points where

1123
00:50:26,670 --> 00:50:24,190
you know where the alien arrived I I

1124
00:50:29,070 --> 00:50:26,680
sort of think maybe they were here

1125
00:50:32,130 --> 00:50:29,080
briefly and then went away again it's

1126
00:50:34,740 --> 00:50:32,140
vaguely possible you know some some film

1127
00:50:37,050 --> 00:50:34,750
you see almost no photographs but some

1128
00:50:38,970 --> 00:50:37,060
some video is more convincing I don't

1129
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:38,980
think there are any good UFO photographs

1130
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:41,770
obviously there aren't even and it will

1131
00:50:50,060 --> 00:50:44,970
be many good fakes even good point but

1132
00:50:53,220 --> 00:50:50,070
that recent collection by attack Womack

1133
00:50:56,580 --> 00:50:53,230
flight sources are real which basically

1134
00:50:58,500 --> 00:50:56,590
contains every you know every memorable

1135
00:50:59,940 --> 00:50:58,510
photo from one's childhood you know

1136
00:51:02,430 --> 00:50:59,950
there's there's nothing in there that

1137
00:51:04,980 --> 00:51:02,440
really makes you go whew maybe once or

1138
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:04,990
twice yeah you know yeah maybe once or

1139
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:08,770
twice or maybe even it's just a flyover

1140
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:12,160
and all the technical stuff technology

1141
00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:13,570
was good enough so that we never really

1142
00:51:19,140 --> 00:51:16,510
noticed very much I I tend to agree with

1143
00:51:21,750 --> 00:51:19,150
you you know I had never come down hard

1144
00:51:25,590 --> 00:51:21,760
even as a UFO quote-unquote researcher

1145
00:51:28,290 --> 00:51:25,600
of when you get asked that question it's

1146
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:28,300
so hard to answer the I feel like the

1147
00:51:34,110 --> 00:51:30,130
the most clear concise answer you can

1148
00:51:37,140 --> 00:51:34,120
ever give is I don't know yes absolute

1149
00:51:39,090 --> 00:51:37,150
speaks when you look deeply into

1150
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:39,100
something like Rendlesham forest and it

1151
00:51:45,300 --> 00:51:42,850
just folds a part like a wet wet card

1152
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:45,310
house yeah you know and so many of these

1153
00:51:50,070 --> 00:51:47,170
cases are like that that they require

1154
00:51:52,170 --> 00:51:50,080
require belief yeah that's a C team to

1155
00:51:54,150 --> 00:51:52,180
keep going yes it's a struggle we you we

1156
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:54,160
have all the time belief adverse fact

1157
00:51:58,110 --> 00:51:57,130
within the UFO field for sure but I mean

1158
00:52:00,870 --> 00:51:58,120
when you when you listen to the

1159
00:52:03,350 --> 00:52:00,880
Rendlesham tapes and the voices on the

1160
00:52:06,330 --> 00:52:03,360
board you know

1161
00:52:09,750 --> 00:52:06,340
yeah still looking at this void in the

1162
00:52:11,630 --> 00:52:09,760
sky yeah these guys are not going

1163
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:11,640
through a great transcendent experience

1164
00:52:15,930 --> 00:52:14,170
that's a good point and then often the

1165
00:52:18,060 --> 00:52:15,940
audio we do here whether it's not a

1166
00:52:20,700 --> 00:52:18,070
documentary or what not are the one

1167
00:52:22,890 --> 00:52:20,710
small moments where something out of the

1168
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:22,900
ordinary does happen and that's what we

1169
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:25,450
always hear re good if you're observing

1170
00:52:35,550 --> 00:52:28,810
a light in the sky on the horizon for

1171
00:52:36,180 --> 00:52:35,560
several hours I tend to suspect mm-hmm

1172
00:52:38,460 --> 00:52:36,190
yes

1173
00:52:42,570 --> 00:52:38,470
maybe a lighthouse and maybe not we'll

1174
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:42,580
never again we'll never know well I mean

1175
00:52:47,790 --> 00:52:44,890
sort of wrapping things up Paul so I'm

1176
00:52:49,530 --> 00:52:47,800
sure like you and many of your readers

1177
00:52:51,570 --> 00:52:49,540
they were disappointed when vertigo

1178
00:52:53,910 --> 00:52:51,580
decided not to continue sauce their

1179
00:52:55,710 --> 00:52:53,920
country but we've we've sort of hinted

1180
00:52:58,590 --> 00:52:55,720
at what is coming right now

1181
00:53:01,080 --> 00:52:58,600
that is saucer state the new the new

1182
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:01,090
version with IDW can you tell us a

1183
00:53:05,550 --> 00:53:03,610
little bit about what we we can expect

1184
00:53:08,610 --> 00:53:05,560
with this new is it there 12-issue run

1185
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:08,620
um it's a six-issue run initially okay

1186
00:53:13,890 --> 00:53:11,290
then so the last issue that comes out

1187
00:53:17,130 --> 00:53:13,900
just before the turn of the air in late

1188
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:17,140
December there's a gorgeous new IDW

1189
00:53:21,750 --> 00:53:18,370
complete edition of the original

1190
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:21,760
sorcerer country in one volume where

1191
00:53:26,220 --> 00:53:24,370
I've taken the opportunity to fix a few

1192
00:53:28,230 --> 00:53:26,230
errors like you know move speech

1193
00:53:30,390 --> 00:53:28,240
balloons that were put into the wrong

1194
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:30,400
purse and all that and source estate

1195
00:53:35,010 --> 00:53:31,810
will be collected early in the new year

1196
00:53:37,020 --> 00:53:35,020
in those six issues and then we're going

1197
00:53:40,230 --> 00:53:37,030
to pause a bit to let Ryan Kelly recover

1198
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:40,240
for a while then we are going to finish

1199
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:43,570
it in we're still discussing what the

1200
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:45,490
form of that might be whether it'll be

1201
00:53:50,010 --> 00:53:47,170
individual issues whether it'll be one

1202
00:53:51,870 --> 00:53:50,020
volume we're not sure but then there

1203
00:53:54,030 --> 00:53:51,880
will come the conclusion the conclusion

1204
00:53:56,850 --> 00:53:54,040
will be roughly roughly four to six

1205
00:53:58,710 --> 00:53:56,860
issues long but it might be in one

1206
00:54:00,660 --> 00:53:58,720
volume perfect oh well that's very

1207
00:54:04,350 --> 00:54:00,670
exciting to hear I'll take whatever I

1208
00:54:05,970 --> 00:54:04,360
can get with it man well I mean I've

1209
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:05,980
been looking over your resume Paul after

1210
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:08,410
I discovered saucer country and you've

1211
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:10,450
worked on some pretty extensive

1212
00:54:14,730 --> 00:54:13,330
properties and this is a question sort

1213
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:14,740
of throwing you a curveball here but

1214
00:54:18,569 --> 00:54:16,450
something like saucer countries

1215
00:54:21,690 --> 00:54:18,579
sir state is completely yours you

1216
00:54:23,609 --> 00:54:21,700
created this from start to finish what I

1217
00:54:26,460 --> 00:54:23,619
kind of want to know before we leave

1218
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:26,470
here is what is it like as a writer

1219
00:54:31,079 --> 00:54:28,690
working on a completely original project

1220
00:54:33,359 --> 00:54:31,089
versus a pre-existing world you know a

1221
00:54:35,339 --> 00:54:33,369
franchise that everyone knows that

1222
00:54:37,260 --> 00:54:35,349
you're sort of diving into what do you

1223
00:54:41,430 --> 00:54:37,270
find most rewarding about either one of

1224
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:41,440
those well I I got the opportunity when

1225
00:54:45,810 --> 00:54:43,810
working in other people's worlds to deal

1226
00:54:48,210 --> 00:54:45,820
with characters that always wanted to

1227
00:54:52,410 --> 00:54:48,220
write you know you you Doctor Who's and

1228
00:54:55,319 --> 00:54:52,420
your Marvel characters that's a great

1229
00:54:58,710 --> 00:54:55,329
pleasure and but I've started feeling

1230
00:55:01,020 --> 00:54:58,720
recent years that that's fun and the the

1231
00:55:03,720 --> 00:55:01,030
serious work there's stuff that I really

1232
00:55:05,940 --> 00:55:03,730
want to do lies in in original

1233
00:55:10,260 --> 00:55:05,950
characters so I'm pursuing that much

1234
00:55:12,240 --> 00:55:10,270
harder now yeah it's sort of a mix

1235
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:12,250
tighter varied I you know you want to do

1236
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:14,170
a bit of one on the bit of the other you

1237
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:15,609
know I've just been amazingly fortunate

1238
00:55:20,599 --> 00:55:17,770
to be able to wander about sort of being

1239
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:20,609
a bit of a daily sanity and just sort of

1240
00:55:25,380 --> 00:55:23,290
having fun and doing bits here and there

1241
00:55:27,660 --> 00:55:25,390
now I've made my big decision to only

1242
00:55:30,089 --> 00:55:27,670
work on my own characters you know the

1243
00:55:33,990 --> 00:55:30,099
universe mocks me as soon as I said that

1244
00:55:35,370 --> 00:55:34,000
on Twitter an hour later Titan comics

1245
00:55:40,500 --> 00:55:35,380
announced they've got the rights to down

1246
00:55:42,150 --> 00:55:40,510
there possibly when could you not waited

1247
00:55:45,870 --> 00:55:42,160
a day come on

1248
00:55:49,890 --> 00:55:45,880
oh god bless Twitter for all its uh it's

1249
00:55:51,630 --> 00:55:49,900
good and bad for sure you know I really

1250
00:55:54,750 --> 00:55:51,640
loved up there and I would really what I

1251
00:55:56,849 --> 00:55:54,760
want you to do that but I just just

1252
00:55:59,190 --> 00:55:56,859
ruled myself out beforehand hey there's

1253
00:56:05,370 --> 00:55:59,200
you know we live in a world where you

1254
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:05,380
can always go back on your word there's

1255
00:56:12,089 --> 00:56:06,970
one last thing there's one last thing

1256
00:56:15,450 --> 00:56:12,099
that I can't talk about that yet loving

1257
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:15,460
salsa country salsa state and you know I

1258
00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:19,930
think it's sort of it's my big story is

1259
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:22,240
my sort of central work I mean my most

1260
00:56:27,150 --> 00:56:24,490
autobiographical work is my horror novel

1261
00:56:29,490 --> 00:56:27,160
choc but this is this is the what I

1262
00:56:29,750 --> 00:56:29,500
really want to land and to finish you

1263
00:56:35,300 --> 00:56:29,760
know

1264
00:56:39,230 --> 00:56:35,310
because Chris rile have IDW this such a

1265
00:56:41,780 --> 00:56:39,240
a UFO but he was sort of he was the the

1266
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:41,790
big factor in bringing us over that you

1267
00:56:45,620 --> 00:56:43,530
know to their credit DC was a very

1268
00:56:47,900 --> 00:56:45,630
cooperative it get your son keep the

1269
00:56:50,450 --> 00:56:47,910
rights back to us so you know it's been

1270
00:56:52,970 --> 00:56:50,460
delightful or not that's great well now

1271
00:56:54,710 --> 00:56:52,980
I know another guest I'm gonna turn to

1272
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:54,720
now so thank you for giving me that name

1273
00:56:59,630 --> 00:56:57,330
over at IDW oh yeah Chris Rock Chris

1274
00:57:02,000 --> 00:56:59,640
Rock I'm sure he loves conversations

1275
00:57:03,740 --> 00:57:02,010
like this oh that's great well you

1276
00:57:05,090 --> 00:57:03,750
mentioned chalk what else do you have on

1277
00:57:06,890 --> 00:57:05,100
the creative side coming up is there

1278
00:57:09,010 --> 00:57:06,900
anything you can talk about right now um

1279
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:09,020
let me see

1280
00:57:14,900 --> 00:57:12,690
Richard books starting with witches of

1281
00:57:16,850 --> 00:57:14,910
which would continue at torque on

1282
00:57:18,770 --> 00:57:16,860
publishing how put all sorts of things

1283
00:57:21,740 --> 00:57:18,780
that are doing bit it's gonna be a busy

1284
00:57:22,970 --> 00:57:21,750
year for me but this is this sort of

1285
00:57:25,310 --> 00:57:22,980
point of the year where you can't talk

1286
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:25,320
about anything that's comparable I know

1287
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:26,730
it was this year it was true could

1288
00:57:30,410 --> 00:57:28,010
littered

1289
00:57:33,050 --> 00:57:30,420
and I'm just finished to remembe and

1290
00:57:36,170 --> 00:57:33,060
Perella or my old friend Hiddleston who

1291
00:57:38,870 --> 00:57:36,180
was the editor at dynamite um and yeah

1292
00:57:42,860 --> 00:57:38,880
that's that's about it right now I think

1293
00:57:45,800 --> 00:57:42,870
that's plenty for sure well where can we

1294
00:57:46,370 --> 00:57:45,810
find saucer state and more about what

1295
00:57:48,500 --> 00:57:46,380
you're up to

1296
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:48,510
well you can find source of state in all

1297
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:50,970
the comic shops or on comiXology

1298
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:53,370
digitally and you can find the collected

1299
00:58:01,420 --> 00:57:55,530
saucer country from IDW there as well

1300
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:04,130
perfect well I can't tell you how happy

1301
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:05,370
and giddy

1302
00:58:08,810 --> 00:58:06,690
I always to have discovered your

1303
00:58:11,660 --> 00:58:08,820
probably much later than I should have

1304
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:11,670
but you know now I eagerly await every

1305
00:58:15,470 --> 00:58:13,680
issue of saucer stayed it's it's

1306
00:58:17,870 --> 00:58:15,480
interesting you know we live in such a

1307
00:58:21,080 --> 00:58:17,880
fast-paced binge consuming world now

1308
00:58:22,580 --> 00:58:21,090
it's refreshing again to wait for

1309
00:58:25,970 --> 00:58:22,590
something to come out I think that's

1310
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:25,980
very important it really helps the

1311
00:58:30,050 --> 00:58:28,050
reader and the writer in the creative

1312
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:30,060
side and the consuming side especially

1313
00:58:36,710 --> 00:58:32,160
when it's something is close to my heart

1314
00:58:38,930 --> 00:58:36,720
it's UFOs so thank you I'm really glad

1315
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:38,940
I'm really glad we've tuned into

1316
00:58:43,010 --> 00:58:40,290
something there for you thanks very much

1317
00:58:45,620 --> 00:58:43,020
my pleasure thank you again for

1318
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:45,630
bringing Arcadia and company out I think

1319
00:58:49,490 --> 00:58:47,610
it's an incredible story I can't wait to

1320
00:58:51,920 --> 00:58:49,500
see where it's going and how it's going

1321
00:58:53,570 --> 00:58:51,930
to end I think that's very exciting so

1322
00:58:55,790 --> 00:58:53,580
thank you again for joining me on

1323
00:58:57,290 --> 00:58:55,800
somewhere in the skies thank you alright

1324
00:58:59,030 --> 00:58:57,300
that is it for this week's episode I

1325
00:59:01,880 --> 00:58:59,040
have to thank Paul again for coming on

1326
00:59:04,340 --> 00:59:01,890
again the newly released series saucer

1327
00:59:07,700 --> 00:59:04,350
state can be found on comiXology or

1328
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:07,710
through IDW Publishing com for a

1329
00:59:13,130 --> 00:59:10,050
complete list of Paul Cornell's work be

1330
00:59:14,870 --> 00:59:13,140
sure to visit him at Paul Cornell com if

1331
00:59:17,660 --> 00:59:14,880
you haven't already please take a moment

1332
00:59:20,030 --> 00:59:17,670
to subscribe write and review somewhere

1333
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:20,040
in the skies on iTunes this is the

1334
00:59:25,100 --> 00:59:22,770
largest platform for podcasts and the

1335
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:25,110
more subscribers we get the more visible

1336
00:59:30,470 --> 00:59:27,690
the show becomes to new listeners we're

1337
00:59:33,590 --> 00:59:30,480
on twitter at somewhere skies instagram

1338
00:59:36,110 --> 00:59:33,600
at somewhere skies pod and to make any

1339
00:59:37,940 --> 00:59:36,120
topic and guests suggestions to read

1340
00:59:40,460 --> 00:59:37,950
bonus articles and to submit your own

1341
00:59:42,860 --> 00:59:40,470
UFO sighting and encounters please

1342
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:42,870
contact me through the website somewhere

1343
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:45,210
in the skies calm i'll see you here next

1344
00:59:49,790 --> 00:59:47,850
monday and remember keep your feet on

1345
01:00:03,089 --> 00:59:49,800
the ground but never stop searching

1346
01:00:06,900 --> 01:00:05,130
somewhere in the skies is produced by

1347
01:00:09,029 --> 01:00:06,910
Third Kind productions in association

1348
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:09,039
with antica productions and the antic a

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podcast network to learn more visit

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antica productions comm hey this is paul

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baits one of the cast members of

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Illusion oyd join us each week as we

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improvise an audio adventure and

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transmit dire warnings from the future

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as part of the antica podcast network

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and don't forget to follow us on

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facebook twitter and instagram at